EA051: Sacred Kink Part 1
-
Intro:
This week on Erotic Awakening: Sacred Kink with Lee Harrington, part one.[music intro]
Welcome to Erotic Awakening with Dan and Dawn, a weekly view of all things erotic. From BDSM to erotic spirituality, from swinging as a lifestyle to simply fun kink, each week we bring you a diverse offering of erotic and alternative lifestyles in its many forms. This podcast includes frank discussions of highly sexual topics. This podcast is intended for consenting adults over the age of 18.If you are offended by this type of content, we recommend you stop listening right now.
dawn:
Hi Dan.Dan:
Hi dawn. How are you today?dawn:
I'm a little tired.Dan:
And why is that?dawn:
Because I kind of missed curfew last night.Dan:
5am is well past curfew, I would imagine.dawn:
Just a little. [laughs]Dan:
My understanding is you were at a play party until the wee, wee hours of the morning.dawn:
I was, I was. I was there almost to the end.Dan:
Well, that's good in … sometimes it's good to be the person that's closing the door at 2am.dawn:
Mmm, yeah, sometimes. Except when you have a long drive back home.Dan:
And then crawling into bed at 5 am, and then getting up and doing a podcast today.dawn:
Mm-hmm. Yup, yup.Dan:
Well, at least you're determined.dawn:
I am. I am.Dan:
So on today's show, we have Lee Harrington, and he's going to talk about his new book, Sacred Kink: The Eightfold Path. What a joy it is to speak with Lee again. Lee actually was on our podcast many, many, many moons ago in one of the very first podcasts we ever did. And Lee's just a wonderful — not only a wonderful presenter, but a wonderful author as well. And I found — I just keep finding more great stuff in Sacred Kink, and it was just great to have the opportunity to speak to him.dawn:
I know! Lee really knows his stuff, and the way he presents it is just very — well, like I tell him, I know what I want to say, and I don't have the words for it. Lee figures out how to find the words, and how to convey it, so that other people understand what he's saying as wellDan:
And does a fabulous job of it in — not only in the book, but in the interview that we did with Lee, as well. So much so that I broke the interview down into two segments. The first segment that we'll hear today deals with “what is the Eightfold Path”? And Lee helps us to understand each section of the Eightfold Path. So very interesting stuff.dawn:
So, interesting indeed. And then the second half we’ll present later, and that's because Lee just hung around and — and kept chatting and chatting.Dan:
Kept chatting with us, and it was wonderful. And we got to get to know Lee a little bit better, is always a joy.dawn:
I love that part of it.Dan:
Before we get into that though, we should talk a little bit about old business and new business, and that kind of stuff.dawn:
Old business and new business, sounds like we're in a meeting.Dan:
Old business is easy. We're back from Chicago, where we presented for GD2, a fantastic group there.dawn:
Oh, that was so awesome.Dan:
If you are a listener, you are in the Chicagoland area, that is just a wonderful group. If you're new to the lifestyle or a veteran that is one, I would definitely recommend that you go check out.dawn:
Awesome energy, awesome group of people.Dan:
And right before that, we hit Winter Wickedness here —dawn:
We did!Dan:
—here in our hometown in Columbus, Ohio.dawn:
That's where we met up with Lee.Dan:
As well as a bunch of other interesting and fascinating people. And got to run with Scarlet Sanctuary, got to do all kinds of fun stuff there. And only — and already people are starting the countdown to the next one.dawn:
That's what usually happens.Dan:
Now, in last week's show, somebody asked, “What is a great event for a first timer to go to?”dawn:
Oooh, they did, indeed. And what did you come up with?Dan:
I spoke with Extra Special Tom, who is our event coordinator for the Kinko de Mayo event, and I said, “Tom, is Kinko de Mayo a good event for a first timer?” And he says that it is! And I quite agree with him. The group that is around Kinko de Mayo — Ohio SMART. They are absolutely one of the friendliest and warmest and most welcoming groups around and they actually average — Thomas told me — they average from 6 to 10 new people every month. So you're not alone if you go.dawn:
No, and I saw that last night. That's the party that I went to last night. And there were! There were about ten new people. So there was quite a few “old timers”, I'm going to say — even though they may not appreciate that.Dan:
Guilty.dawn:
Yeah, You know, people that I've known for a while that were there, and there were a lot of new people, too. And they were being shown the ropes.Dan:
And Kinko De Mayo is going to have a great beginning track of classes. This year is no exception to that. It looks like they'll be bringing in Goddess Joanne for “BDSM 101”, a submissive roundtable, some face slapping, another — another new one to me: “Krazy Glue Play”, some CBT, “Playing with Strangers”, and as a matter of fact, you and I will be presenting there as well.dawn:
We will! We’ll be doing “Living D/s”.Dan:
Yep.dawn:
So, and I see — I'm looking here and, um, the submissive roundtable is actually being hosted by slave Lymie. So I haven't seen slave Lymie around in a while. They took kind of a break, it'll be nice to have them back.Dan:
Yep. And of course, keynote speaker — one of my favorite people — Lee Harrington. So, if you don't get enough Lee Harrington on this episode, you'll find more Lee Harrington there. And of course they'll have the violet wand, and needles, and fistings and every other sort of thing going on. So, you know — and it's a relatively inexpensive event. As a matter of fact, right now — if I remember correctly — if you get your tickets in the next month or so, they're 30 bucks cheaper than they will be.So, now's the time to get them. And it will sell out. They sell out every year for the last previous three years. So, you know, if it's …
dawn:
Yeah, and it's a great time. I mean, they take over the whole first floor of this building and you know, there's, there's social area, and there's dungeon areas, and there's workshop areas, and vendors, and we'll have Scarlet Sanctuary again, and just a great time and lots of stuff offered.Dan:
Yep. But before Kinko de Mayo, the only other thing that I want to mention that we've got coming up is… our Dark Odyssey is right around the corner.dawn:
Right.Dan:
We'll be packing the car and leaving. Might knock out another podcast between now and the end of the week.dawn:
But it definitely would be nice if we could get Lee Harrington's part two out before we go, because we've got some stuff scheduled to put together when we're at Dark Odyssey.Dan:
We'll be doing the, uh — well, we’ll be doing some recording for something called Kink Academy, and we'll be able to tell you more about that in a couple of weeks. But apparently we're going to be both visual and audio.dawn:
That was the surprise that you had for me, that you talked about a while back.Dan:
That's right.dawn:
And it’s a great surprise. This is going to be awesome.Dan:
And we'll also be doing it — if any of our listeners are out there in the Washington area, or going to Washington for Dark Odyssey, we will be doing some recording from Dark Odyssey at the meet-and-greet, which is Saturday afternoon. So that'll be a lot of fun. So the podcast will be “live” as much as a podcast can be live.dawn:
Right, right.Dan:
So it'll be interesting. So if you are a listener who's going to Dark Odyssey, stop by, say hi. And we can point out you to all the other people that are there, that you might want to meet, and say, “There's— there's Graydancer, go over and talk to him. There's Tristan, go talk to her, she's wonderful.” And there'll be a lot of — be a lot of fun.dawn:
And a lot of people will be there for, what, three and a half days, and we usually have a blast at this event. It's a little different, it's a big hotel event, and … was is there supposed to be, like, a thousand people there, or something?Dan:
A thousand people at this kink event.dawn:
That is crazy. And it's just awesome. Great people.Dan:
If you are at Dark Odyssey and you want to get hold of us, you can just walk up and say, “Hey, Dan! Hey, dawn! How are you guys?”dawn:
That's happened before, and it's really cool. So, please, do it again.Dan:
But if you're a little shy and you don't want to just —dawn:
[laughing] Sorry.Dan:
— and you don't want to be a fanboy or a fangirl—dawn:
That's what I was just thinking.Dan:
And you don't want to walk up and say hi. Maybe you'd rather email us. And you do that at eroticawakening@bluecatservices.org.dawn:
Or the contact form on the website. Again, bluecatservices.org.Dan:
We love voicemail, (206) 309-0054, and we would be happy to play your voicemail on the air, if you're interested.dawn:
Absolutely. We can be found on FetLife with Erotic Awakening.Dan:
And on Twitter, Dan and dawn.dawn:
So — and I also want to give a shout out to Julian. So he is one of our podcast listeners that came into Cleveland last night, and I got to meet him. So that was — that was pretty neat. So a big shout out.Dan:
Julian, yo!dawn:
Yo! [both laugh][music break]
Dan:
So, really interesting: at one of the events we went to recently, you wanted me to cane your breast.dawn:
Yes.Dan:
And that's a pretty — it's a very nice scene, mind you, and I don't want to minimize that at all, and breast caning is very interesting. And what we did was, I tied you up, and then I got out the canes, and then I caned your breast. Now, granted, there’s some warm up in there.dawn:
Right.Dan:
And what I found, while you seemed to be enjoying the scene, it wasn't enough for me, it wasn't working for me. It was a nice scene, but it was … on the physical realm, it just wasn't connecting enough. And I have found for us, in that particular scene, we had to add a level of sacred connection to that.dawn:
Yes.Dan:
Now, in BDSM, you can be sacred and still be harsh. You can be sacred and be naughty. You can be sacred and slutty. You can combine all those aspects together. And in this particular scene that you and I did, we did combine many aspects together.dawn:
Yes.Dan:
And for those people watching — and we certainly had some people who were watching, who came up to us afterwards and said, “That was a really intense scene,” as well as had someone come up to us and say, “You scared my sub.”dawn:
They thought we were gentle, and then the scene just totally wigged them out.Dan:
It did. It did. And I guess I should explain the scene a little bit. I mean, for me, once I had you tied up, once I had your… began caning your breast, and that was all fine and wonderful, and it wasn't meant to be a particularly sexual scene, it was supposed to be a very straightforward BDSM scene …dawn:
Ours don't usually end up that way when the connection happens, though.Dan:
Right, right.dawn:
They turn into something else.Dan:
And this is certainly a case in point, of “where it does turn into something else,” where you ended up getting thrown to the ground, and getting mounted [dawn chuckles] and there's a bunch of biting and growling…dawn:
I got to growl back and get held down and…yeah.Dan:
Yeah, and it became a very — now, again, depending on how you see “spiritual” or “sacred,” you say, “What's sacred about that?” You know, but — and this is one of the things that Lee talks about where… allowing yourself to be ridden, allowing more than just this swing… mechanical sort of thing to happen.dawn:
Right.Dan:
And as you mentioned earlier, it can be a very difficult thing to talk about unless you've experienced it. As we mentioned, you know, Lee did a wonderful job of talking about it, as can be seen in the book that he just published.dawn:
I'm glad somebody's got the words for it, because, like I said, all I can do is the hand gestures. It's like, you know, when you try to describe to someone “what does it mean to be ridden?” You know, something else, or an inner piece of you — I don't know which words to use — come out.Dan:
Mm-hmm. And I have found for myself that this has really become almost — this is an interesting question for you and maybe for our listeners, as well.Dawn:
Okay.Dan:
I was going to say, it has become somewhat of a liability for me, that I cannot just do a straight BDSM scene, I can't just do a straight sex thing with someone. You know, I can't do the swinging thing, I can't do the random hookups… unless I'm able to build a sacred connection with my partner. Now, that doesn't mean that we are worshiping any particular deity—dawn:
Right.Dan:
—or that we are making some pact, or ritual, or vow, or some such. But there's got to be something beyond this “I'll swing this, you accept this, we’ll generate pain and torment between us and both be turned on.” Or, “I'll pull this out, and I'll stick it in here, and I'll go humpeda-humpeda-hump.”Dawn:
Yeah. To me, it's about creating — again, that connection. That uhhh… third thing that… See, here I go again. I did the same thing with Lee, you know, just trying to put it into words, something that is very energetic for me, you know? So the mechanics are okay, but that's not what turns me on. And, wow, try again, because I'm failing at words.Dan:
And for those who are thinking, well, once you get on Kink Academy - and I can see, visually, the hand symbols. It won't help.dawn:
No, it won’t help. Because I'm sitting there going, “I don't know how to describe it,” you know? And it is very forceful. I know for me and you, it's very intense. It's — you can tell when it takes over, you know?Dan:
And that's, you know, part of it is allowing it. So allowing it to take over implies a level of trust and vulnerability. This is, for me, what the big thing about sacred kink is. It allows for vulnerability.dawn:
Yes.Dan:
It allows for that deeper connection beyond, “I am giving you the gift of a physical thing.” You know, be it my physical body that you can do something with, and you do something with your physical body. Even if you're using an implement like a flogger, or a cane, or whatever along the way. And finding out that these floggers, and canes, or dildos can be part of the sacred act between you and your partner, or your partners or yourself, even, depending on what the situation is. You know, it's a matter of touching more than just one level. You know?To me, the basic swinger sex is… and again, if I — if we have listeners that are swingers, keep swinging, and if you're having a great time, you're doing it right. I don't know how to do it, because I don't know how to do more than to have a connection that's just physical, right? I want those multiple levels of connection. And again, it doesn't mean that I have to fall in love with the person I'm playing with. It means — but I want a connection that's not just the fleshy bits. I want an energetic connection to that person.
dawn:
Right. And I mean, I was just talking with someone last night about this, and we were talking about how the fetish isn't our fetish. You know? The thing that he was doing with his Mistress wasn't what turned him on, it was the fact that she enjoyed it. They — he got to be vulnerable. She got to take him places that only she can take him. And it was an energetic connection and the Domination/submissive dynamic that turned him on. So it's — it's like his fetish is that energetic connection, not the physical thing that they're doing.Dan:
Mm-hmm.dawn:
And I just could just sit there, just nod my head and go, “I absolutely understand what you're talking about.” So, it was an awesome conversation.Dan:
It's important to remember that people define the word “sacred” in different ways, I think, and you've got to figure out what your own definition is. But I think when we talk about sacred kink, we're not necessarily talking about religious kink.dawn:
Right.Dan:
For some people, there is cross-pollination or a cross-understanding of these sort of things. And you know, one of the things that Lee points out is that we've seen in a lot of religious communities, there is a level of — not kink, per se, but some of the stuff that we do in BDSM settings is repeated from religious settings. Very interesting to see that sort of thing.dawn:
From the oldest times, you know, they use — some of the older religions — use what we call now “BDSM” to take themselves to a trance space, which is where they meet their divine, you know? So it's all blended in.Dan:
And if you're wondering, you know, if you're scratching your head about that one saying, “Gee, I don't recall going to Sunday school and having you know, anyone pull out a flogger,” or that kind of thing. Lee talks about that some, and there's other resources as well that we can share.But, you know, again, for me, my religion, for Dan — I think for those listeners that don't know this — I happen to consider myself a Buddhist. And that doesn't mean that I mix, necessarily, Buddhism and my kinky life. But for me, I don't separate them per se either. You know, I find it very interesting and difficult to understand a lot of my — and we have a fair number of friends who self-identify as Christians. And, you know, they find that balance, they find that solace in, “This is why, this is not - in my religion - an act against the God of my understanding,” you know?
dawn:
Right.Dan:
But a lot of times, you know, like I was saying, that this is not necessarily about finding religion in kink, but it is finding sacredness in kink. And that's just meaning getting a deeper understanding; a deeper self; a deeper, more complete you. And that's what sacred is, to me.dawn:
Exactly. And you know, the thing that popped into my head while you're saying those words is — is that sometimes it's just about finding the sacredness within yourself. You know, when you allow that vulnerability out, when you allow your walls down, you get to see the brightness within yourself. So you get to tap into that sacredness within yourself, it doesn't have to be something outside. And then you can feel the sacredness of the other person. You know, that whole “thou art goddess,” you actually connect with that, and that's what makes it sacred to me. So, you know, if I have to keep my walls up to play with someone, we're not going to tap into that “thou art goddess.” I'm not going to be able to find it.Dan:
Absolutely true. So, listeners out there, if you see sacred and sacred kink different than what you're hearing here, or if you agree, we have a couple of days between part one and part two — toss us an email, or toss us a voicemail or, you know, give us a holler in whatever medium you want to, do that and say, “Here's a sacred kink is for me,” and let's get some of your feedback and get some of your ideas and put that out there, as well. And we'd be happy to share that with our audience, as well.dawn:
We'd love to hear the words. So, maybe someone’s better at the words than I am. [laughs]Dan:
So, for the moment, though, let's listen to how Lee Harrington has put together the words.dawn:
Fabulous.[pause]
Dan:
We are sitting here watching Lee Harrington sign a brand new copy of her book. [Lee laughs]dawn:
Yay!Lee:
Yay!Dan:
One of the reasons we wanted to talk to you today, Lee — and let me start off by saying thank you for coming on the show, again.Lee:
Yeah, it's great to be back.Dan:
Normally, once people come on once, they don't want to come back. I don't understand that at all. I don't know what that is, but —Lee:
You know what? I think it's just about scheduling. That's all it is. You guys are beautiful, and bright, and shiny, it’s always fantastic.dawn:
Well, thank you!Dan:
So recently, I was on one of the tantra boards, and they started a new forum for people that were into both tantra and BDSM.Lee:
Fantastic!Dan:
And it caused quite a stir, because a lot of tantrikas were saying “oh, BDSM is the least spiritual thing in the world.”Lee:
Wow.Dan:
There’s nothing — it's all about play. “They're like those other people that are into things that just — they don't understand it. They don't get the — the sacred aspect of it. They don't get anything except for slap and tickle.”Lee:
Wow.Dan:
And I said — after I got done ranting about that — I said, “Who do we know who really understands the BDSM/sacred aspect of it?” And here we are sitting with Lee Harrington, who as — last night, as the presenters were being announced, I believe that's the - Barak, who runs the event that we happened to be at at the moment, said something along the lines of, “When you think woo-woo, you think, ‘Lee Harrington’!”[all laugh]
Lee:
That's probably fair. Yeah, I— I didn't finish.Dan:
So this book is Sacred Kink: The Eightfold Path of BDSM and Beyond. So, I'm going to take it, that you believe different. That BDSM is sacred.Lee:
Absolutely! I — the book is actually about this idea that I've had, that BDSM is an amazing tool for altered states of consciousness, and that many of the tools used in — whether we're calling it kink, BDSM, adventurous eroticism, sacred exploring, whatever we're calling it today — it's this idea that the tools that we use — flagellation? Hello! — has been a tool for sacred exploration for 3000 years.Dawn:
Right.Lee:
Right, or we look at the Lupercalia festivals from Rome as a great example of— no really, that tool has been used for a long time. And on the flipside, the number of people I've met who have had experiences with BDSM and kink, who have had it lead to personal moments of revelation, or personal evolution, is pretty staggering. In the first case, I find it hilarious the number of kinksters, SMers, sexual explorers that find themselves surprised when they have epiphanies or moments of revelation in the dungeon, when they're using the same tools that have been used for how many years, right?dawn:
Right.Lee:
I’ve — in my in my book, I've broken down this idea that — the reasons called Eightfold Paths of BDSM, is that I was one day reading a book by Raven Kaldera — an essay by Kaven Caldera — called The Eightfold Paths of Northern Tradition Shaman — no, excuse me: Exploring Altered States of Consciousness in Northern Tradition and Shamanism Using Eightfold Paths of Wisdom… really light reading for a Saturday, right? That’s some really light stuff.dawn:
[laughs]Lee:
And as I was reading through it, I went, “Ohhh, wait!” Like, I've had some empathy with this moment, thinking about my sexuality. Then I went, okay: the first one that he introduced was this idea of Path of Rhythm. [rhythmically] The drumbeats… beating… through… the earth. And he was talking about using drums as a spiritual tool to be able to go up and down Yggdrasil, the world tree. But I was like, “Wait… I’ve gone up and down through the plains by having really intense, thumping connections.” Or dancing to music, we're vibrating in time. I'm like, wait a second. Okay, well, let's look at the next one. Right? And he talked about the idea of the Ordeal Path.dawn:
Absolutely.Lee:
Physical extremes, emotional extremes, psychological extremes, rites of passage, being pushed out of our comfort zone, into something that goes beyond. And I went, well, wow, that definitely applies in the dungeon, and that definitely applies in our bedrooms when playing with sex, because sometimes it's about playing with those taboo desires. It's about walking up to that edge, and consciously making the choice to step over the threshold. Making that choice to go off the cliff and believe in faith. Or in some cases — I was at a kink gathering in Wisconsin back this last summer and there was a waterboarding scene that happened. And…Dan:
Wow!Lee:
Yeah, yeah. That light, fluffy stuff that you find, right?Dan:
Yeah, wow!Lee:
The bottom for it had negotiated ahead of time, “There will be no safewords. I don't want safewords. Push me until I collapse.” And all of the tops said, “Okay, we’ll do it. We'll do it. Absolutely.”And I was bearing witness to the scene, and I’d borne witness to all the negotiation, and all this stuff. They tie her down to the board, they tip her at the 45 degree angle, fabric over her face, water goes on… loses her shit. Absolutely loses her shit. She's screaming, “No, no, no! Safeword, safeword!” But… she's let go of her safeword. She's — she's jumped out — she's gone down the rabbit hole.
dawn:
Right.Lee:
But at the same time, it's like… well, where's our — you know, where's the ethical boundaries of the audience? And so it was an edge experience for us to be watching, as well. And when she started doing the whole — they actually stopped adding water. But she didn't know that, because she was blindfolded and tipped over 45, you know. And somebody barely grazed her arm — from the crew of people holding her down — lost her shit. She said, “I said I want to live! I want to live!” She screamed at the top of her lungs, “I want to live!”I got to debrief with her afterwards because, you know, I've done work with her — like as, I guess, because sometimes in kink there's this idea that there's aftercare. But I think there's another layer, which is processing.
dawn:
Oh, absolutely.Lee:
And sometimes that comes at the same time, of talking about your scenario right after it happens. But in the case of things that are these intense ordeals, you can't always do it right afterwards. And she said to me, “That was the first time, in the last five years, that I've actually wanted to live.” That she'd been dealing with suicidal ideation, extreme depression, mania — like, extreme mania — like, all of this stuff. And for the first time, that that experience had provided her an outlet by saying, “No!” That she actually wanted to live, reminded her that she actually wanted to live. And if that's not the Ordeal Path manifesting itself in the kink world, I'm not sure what is.Dan:
Oh, absolutely! What's more sacred than that— than that recognition of the desire to live? And how you get — so how you get there, in this case, was a BDSM experience.Lee:
Absolutely. And in my work in sacred kink, I'm not saying that “kink is the only way to do that,” it’s that it's another tool in your belt, right? It's another option out there, it's another way to explore it. Or, for people who are exploring kink, to make it more than just a slap and tickle, as you were referring to it earlier.dawn:
Yeah. Or just to realize that, with the scenes, when they're walking the edge, that that can happen.Lee:
Absolutely.dawn:
You know, a lot of people aren't aware of the whole trance aspect. They don't understand — even, like, subspace, or, you know, the whole energetic shift, right? And then it happens to them and it freaks them out.Lee:
And in my opinion, subspace is a form of altered state of consciousness. And there's also Top space, Dom space, rope space, pony space, you-name-it space. Exactly! You want to make up what — you want to say, it's carrot space? You can have a carrot space, if it makes you happy. Right?So the third one that they were talking about was this idea of the Path of the Breath. And a lot of tantra is working in this path.
Dan:
Right, right.Lee:
Right? That idea of, I breathe you in, and I breathe out me into you, and we become a conduit.dawn:
Right.Lee:
And I believe that stuff like single-tailing scenes, spanking — we have the opportunity to literally become a dialysis conduit within our desire. Then I see people who get stagnant in their energy, working within tantra, within energy-working in general, within one’s cycle of ourselves. But if I can find another person who will then put some energy and some “oomph" behind it, with their breath, with their intention, with their eye contact, wow! To have that ability to knock that stuff loose. That is one of the things I love about kink.Dan:
So, in the third chapter, then, you look — or, the third part, I should say...Lee:
Actually, I kind of skipped ahead. That's, actually, technically chapter six. I skipped from — I went two-three-six.Dan:
So in this aspect, then, in this part where we talk about the breath — and like you’re saying, this is where our tantra audience is going to be most familiar. Meditate-ish for that matter, a lot of people always come back to the breath, but using some sort of a BDSM aspect to enhance that?Lee:
Absolutely. So for example, one of the things that I look at is this idea that — of Buddhist walking meditation, right? Of connecting to your body, connecting to the ground, connecting to all that is, and by calming your breath, cooling your breath, and becoming centered in your body, going into a space of no-mind by being aware of the world around you. It's that dichotomy of duality. And so, I took that exact same idea, and did something that I do with sensory deprivation play: of having — laying down in a bed, and having somebody run rabbit furs along your body, and then silks, and then the touch of nails slightly grazing across your hips and down your legs. And instead of walking around, zoning out completely, while centering with your breath into your body, becoming acutely aware of every single touch. And as the world falls away and our monkey mind and our chattering mind falls away, becoming here and present in the moment through a lover's touch. Yeah.So another one dovetailing off of that idea is, is the Path of Flesh, which is the yin to the yang of the Ordeal Path.
dawn:
Okay.Lee:
Right? That “one person's ordeal is another person's happy time.”Dan:
Right.Lee:
Right? And it was interesting for me, looking at the classical systems of the Path of Flesh, because that's talking about things like sex magic, right? Classical Western sex magic usually falls into that hedonistic path of finding revelation or finding personal evolution or entering altered states by — you know — by jerking off and going, “Money, money, money, money, money!” Like, in a classic Crowleyan sense. Right?[all laugh]
But I realize that, you know — wow! When we apply it to kinksters and people who might be wired a little bit differently, that for one person — if we're talking classical Wicca… being a flagellant, and being whipped, is an ordeal. If I now go and play with somebody who is a sexual hedonist, being lashed is an ecstatic work… is being whipped up literally into an erotic frenzy. It is becoming the maenads, and ripping our way through life by entering into that — that debauchery.
And so, it was interesting for me as I looked at Ordeal and Flesh, back and forth, that for like — classical academic ordeals, right? Of — of having to speak in front of an audience.
dawn:
Right?Lee:
Or the bar and bat mitzvah, having to read from the Torah scrolls in front of your great-great-great grandmother while they're scrutinizing you, looking over the glasses, right? And for some people, oh my god, that's the worst ordeal ever. But that one in a hundred who was born for the stage? That one in a hundred who was born for the stage, that is the moment where they enter their body. And for the first time in their childhood, they shine. And they realize, “Oh, this is my calling, this is my ecstatic work.” Ninety-nine people might think it's an Ordeal, but if one person finds it to be a Flesh path, that for that person it's flesh working. It's ecstatic working. It is dancing to the divine blissed out of our mind. It is — you know, that being heady in ourselves. The next one I looked at, it was the Path of Ritual.dawn:
Absolutely.Lee:
Yeah!Dan:
And this is one that should resonate with — with our classic BDSM players.Lee:
Absolutely.Dan:
They understand — even though they may not use ritual all the time, they understand. You know, you claim your piece of equipment, you get out your toys, you do — you go through the motions, step, step, step, in and out.Lee:
Right.Dan:
But you’ve expanded on that, somehow.Lee:
Absolutely. This idea that — that there is a difference between what I would consider pickup play as compared to the rituals that you establish with a partner. Because when I lay out that cane, and clip on your collar, and lock eyes with you as you are on your knees, if I do this every single time, if I do this over and over and over again, I end up layering meaning onto that one act. I add intention to the connection. I add attention to the intention. And by doing that over and over again, you can develop deep rapport, and go and dive deeper places than you ever thought possible. On the flip side, rituals don't also have to be the same person over and over again.dawn:
Right.Lee:
It can be things like, I think of the idea of, for example, hook suspension and the O-kee-pa rituals amongst the Mandan and the people of North America, of this idea that there was a person who went before you, and has been there before. And as soon as you go down that path, and you become a flesh dancer, as well… everybody else who sees the scars on your chest goes, “Oh, you're one of us. You've been there before.” And in the BDSM community, we're talking about capping ceremonies. We're talking about earning your leathers. We're talking about collaring ceremonies. We're talking about scene weddings. We're talking about intentional connection, passing down used rope or fetish objects.Dan:
Right, right.Lee:
That — that idea that, literally, a fetish object — my thigh-high boots can become a fetish object, a talisman or tool of gnosis and power.dawn:
Right!Lee:
Yeah! And it was hilarious to me, as I like, lay these things out. I’m like, “Riiiiiight, duh! We call them fetishes for a reason!” I then — dovetailing into fetishes — I also looked into the idea of the Path of the Horse, and that language of “horsing” or “the horse” comes from voudoun tradition. The idea of “he who is ridden by a deity”.Dawn:
Yes.Lee:
Right? So this is — this is drawing down in Wiccan traditions. This is channeling, this is doing Oracle work in the spiritualist path. Right? So this work appears in multi— this is glossolalia in baptism.dawn:
Right.Lee:
Right? In the Baptist faith. Right? Of entering and speaking in tongues and dancing with the Holy Spirit upon thy brow. Right? This idea that “divine descends” appears in almost every major world religion that has a distinct divinity presence. And it was funny, when I first started discussing Path of the Horse, people were like, “[gasps] You're encouraging people to do horsings and to be ridden by a deity during the middle of scenes?!” And I'm like —dawn:
Absolutely!Lee:
Right! I'm going to touch on it. And I do. I discuss it to some degree — actually, I’d say a fair degree — though, at the beginning of that chapter, actually had — I just want to read the beginning of that because it was pretty funny… Page 254. Here we are:“There are a number of folks who believe that all spirits and deities are a manifestation of personal and cultural desire. A construct of the mind, to help us deal with fear, loss, grief, desire, and the unknown. There are others who say that deities, spirits, ghosts, ascended masters, angelic beings, and more are actual entities who get upset when being written off as being make-believe. So be it. These two parties will likely not agree on to what deities and spirits are. With that in mind, I would instead like to say that deities and spirits are real. What that means for you will vary from person to person. Thus, I will be speaking throughout the section with the voice that spirits are real and able to be interacted with, and have meaning to us. If you are of the belief that by ‘real’ I mean ‘useful to understanding your personal and cultural needs and desires,’ please translate for yourself accordingly. With that said, gods are real.”
[all laugh]
Lee:
But it was really funny to me because I have people who are agnostics who have had moments of — of sacredness but would never use the word divinity.
dawn:
Right.Lee:
Right? Have moments of altered state of consciousness where they had evolutions and revolutions of spirit, where they were like, “Wait, but I don't believe in God. Does that mean I can't access this path at all?” And my answer is no. For anyone who's ever done roleplaying, who's ever even in the day-to-day life job, who's put on their power suit and become their bitch goddess self.You're accessing Path of the Horse because you are doing sacred, shape-changing, work. Right. If you're changing your breath to make a sale, you're doing shape-changing work. If you're pausing for a moment going, “Well, what would my totem say about this?” You're doing shape-shifting work and horse work. If you're taking the moment to go, “Wow, when I was a human puppy, I realized when I was down on the ground, that really IRS taxes aren't that big of a deal! And what really matters in life is, it's sniffing, and being happy, and eating good food, and being petted, and being loved.dawn:
And finding that bone.Lee:
And how true is that for life?dawn:
Right.Lee:
Really, when I strip away all of the bullshit from the world at large, and can just say what really matters is to be petted, and loved, and to have food in my belly, and to get scritches and to curl up at the feet of somebody who I care about, and be. What more divine truth can be told to me than by being a kinky puppy role player? But if someone had said to you, “you can divine truth by being a kinky puppy role player,” what?!dawn:
Yeah, it's hard to explain. I mean, even when you experience and stuff, it's hard to explain some of that stuff you're talking about, you've experienced it, but someone goes, “what does that mean?” It's like uh… I can't word it.Lee:
Well, to me, when I'm talking with laypeople about that idea of connection through roleplaying, I say, well, what's your body language when you're hanging out with your mother? Okay, now lock yourself in the office. What's your body language when you're hanging out at the office? Let's change again. What's happening when you're hanging out with your children? You are three very different people, with three very different perspectives about the world. Does that make you dissociative identity disorder? No. It makes you a human. All humans take on different masks, and that - that anthropological concept that, you know, tribal concept of putting on the mask and having it transform you into Raven who stole the Sun?We're still doing it every day, when we slip on our wedding ring. We're doing it every single day, when we put on our makeup in the morning. We're doing it every single day, When I choose to wear my tennis shoes because I want to have a relaxed day, instead of putting on my power shoes for the office, because I'm literally changing how I walk and changing how I walk, I change my manifest in the world. So I think lay people do it all the time. They do. To be honest, all of us do all these paths. All of us have rituals, all of us have ecstatic flesh moments where we bite into that perfect bite of coconut ice cream, and it hits the top of our mouth, and we feel it melt down the back of our throat, and the world goes away in that moment. Your ex-girlfriend doesn't matter that moment. Your feet hurting don't matter that moment, because the world has reduced down to coconut ice cream. We all do it. Last two paths I discuss is the idea, the Path of the Ascetic and the Path of Sacred Plants. These two are both incredibly common and cultural shamanic working, cultural spirit working, and in my opinion, are both volatile topics within the kink community. The Path of the Ascetic is the Path of the Monk. It is the path of narrowing down from a jack-of-all-trades to being specialized in what we do, with excellence. It is sleeping on a pallet on the ground. It is taking the world away and being here, in this finite - it is monks locking themselves, or nuns. locking themselves in the cloister and reading nothing but one book for the next 30 years. Until that book is read upon their spirit, and they realize the truth of what that path means to them.
In BDSM, in my opinion, this is the path of slavery. This is the path of inner mastery. This is the path of being called to work with a specific tool, or a specific fetish, and having the world narrow down. That can be really scary for a group of slap and tickle folks, right? Where - “No, no, no, no, no. I need to be good at spanking, and tickling, and sex, and kissing, and this and that,” and to say, “No, no, we're going to focus our world down to excellence, and let go of everything else, and take this world path.
Asceticism, in my opinion, is also about choosing to play at home when you've been a public player for so long. If you're used to going to parties and clubs and performing for an audience, choosing to go home and actually spend one-on-one time with your lover, or with yourself, wow. This is also the path of the sacred voyeur. Because I hear in the BDSM community, and the swinger community, “you just want to show up and watch, you're going to be an energetic vampire that will steal all of our goodness”, right? The reality is, in my opinion at least, a voyeur is a sacred role in our community.
dawn:
Absolutely. The witness.Lee:
They are! They are those who will keep space for us. They are the dragons and the guardians at the gate. They are those who will keep out - if we're doing, if I'm doing an ordeal ritual, or a scene that has ordeal things, and on the outside tries to play the white knight and come in and save the day - it is the voyeur who could step in between and say, “No, no, they I saw their prep. They’re good. I heard them negotiate ahead of time that they're going down a dark rabbit hole. Let's give them 20 more minutes to cry, and then we'll step in and see if they need some water before we interrupt their scene.” The voyeur is also the person who is our bard, in this community. They're the person who says, “Do you remember last Saturday at the clubhouse? Oh my God, the look on his face the moment when…”dawn:
Yeah, we've been experiencing that this morning. People walking around and spreading the story.Lee:
Sharing a story. And in sharing the stories, we, A, opened up the possibilities for the world. This is what the bard did in classical culture. They opened up and said, “Once upon a time there was a man who ruled the world.” And in telling that story, we learned the foibles of what it is to be the emperor with no clothes. We learn what it is to be Cú Chulainn, who carries his own lightning bolt. We learn what it is to be Odysseus, fighting his way back to his bride. And we carry these tales, and in the kink and sexual communities, the voyeur is the one who says and remembers, “Oh, you would not have believed it, I would not have believed if I had not seen it with my own eyes. That she was hanging there by hooks or he walked literally on coals. Wow.” And we are able to inspire the masses through our memory.The last one is the Path of Sacred Plants. This is the use of entheogens, and in tribal cultures, it is using peyote buttons to be able to have the revelation that sets you on the path for the rest of your life. It is smoking the hashish before going into battle so that one's mind is calm, and cool, and the world melts away… and I am able to swing my blade and hit the mark as an assassin. There is sacred working in these drugs. I consider the Path of Sacred Plants - all these other things are software to access the altered state of consciousness.
dawn:
Okay.Lee:
Right? You can plug in Photoshop, I can plug in Corel Draw, and I can eventually move things around and get there. Path of Sacred Plants is hacking the mainframe, is changing the hardware. It's putting the drug into the system, and there will always be an outcome. I don't care who you are, if we put LSD in you, something weird will happen. We don't know what it is, but something is going to happen.Dan:
I can certainly see where this is the one - that you will at least find some people at the - for example, riding the horse. People go, “Well, I don't really believe in that,” but this is probably the one where people really get their hackles up.Lee:
Yeah, I've decided to open the conversation up, just like I opened up the Path of the Horse to roleplaying. I've chosen to open up this mind-hacking stuff one extra step, to the idea of, also, things that I've seen over and over again do have the consciousness. Piercing - I have yet to see people who do body piercing with intention, not just about, you know, not just getting your ears pierced, but doing it with intention, that has not had something come out. You know, Sarah Sloan, who's a sexuality educator in our community, made the comment that I think I actually quote in the book that says, “when you put a hole in it, something's going to come out.” Like, what happens? And so piercing, waterboarding is all about that. You know what? There's a reason that CIA operatives even can't, you know, withstand it for more than three-and-a-half minutes. It's just not going to happen, right? Something slips, something happens. I have met, though, people who do explore with their sexuality in combination with entheogens. But notice the use of the word entheogens, not “recreational drugs.” There is a difference between dropping E and getting fucked, and choosing to use ecstasy as an ecstatic tool, to ground into the body, let the world float away, while having hands touch across you. And having you finally realize, and break through the bullshit of your programing - “wow. I am loved. I deserve touch” - because there are some people that it doesn't matter how many times you physically torture them, torment them. They're not going to have that ordeal breakthrough moment. For some people, that one drink, done with intention and connection, is enough to move that little thing that needs to happen inside their consciousness. The wall that they have constructed, to defend themselves from the pain of their own living. Do I recommend use of recreational drugs in sexuality? No. But have I seen it be a useful, profound, and powerful tool for some people? Absolutely. And therefore, I think a discussion needs to be had around these things. Just like a discussion around all these paths needs to be had.[music outro]
dawn:
Coming up next week:Dan:
Sacred Kink with Lee Harrington, part two.dawn:
Bye Dan.Dan:
Bye dawn. What were you doing up till 5:30?dawn:
[laughs] I’ll have to tell you.Music on Erotic Awakening: “Free” by White Knight, “Strawberry Jam” by Jerry Bradley, and “Wunda” by 31d1, is provided from the Podshow Podsafe network. More information can be found at music.podshow.com.
